Do Models Need Bones?
Blitz3D Forums/Blitz3D Beginners Area/Do Models Need Bones?
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| Can a model be animated without using bones? Or is it better to have a boned model? Thanks! |
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| Depends. If you want to animate something like a tank, you can just have the turret/chassis/barrel as separate meshes in the hierarchy and rotate them that way. You can use .x or .3ds format for this. If you want animated people etc, you need boned meshes and that pretty much restricts you to .b3d format. This should have gone in Blitz3D programming, not graphics showcase. |
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| MD2 models don't need bones. . . |
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| MD2 models don't need bones. . . No, but there are problems surrounding the use of MD2s. I personally wouldn't bother. Most people don't. |
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| Ooops ! Sorry please delete Admins.. |
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| problems surrounding the use of MD2s what are the problems? I'm new to animation and I've started using MD2s because I've found that's the easiest and most reliable way to get a boned animation exported from 3ds max (using QTip) to a format blitz 3d can play. I've tried using pipeline for b3d files but this has been giving unpredictable results especially when the model needs scaling. . . If there are issues with MD2s then I would like to know what they are because I'm about to embark on a project with a fair amount of animation in it. . . I don't want to have to do all the animation twice! :O) |
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| The only problem I know about is that it's really old... but it must have been a pretty good format considering that it was specifically designed for a series of games that are thought of as some of the most popular... ~matt |
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| Models do not only need bones, sometimes bones is all they got - bones and skin :/ Seriously - the bones format B3D and the nonboned formates 3DS and X both have their pros and cons. Bones is looking better for characters, then again linepicking on animated B3D will always return picks on the initial pose, so eg. it may look strange when a bullet impact decal is floating staticly in the air at the side of an enemies head, only because in the initial pose the head was a littl more on the left side than in the animation. This may become a serious artefact with the arms and legs when the initial pose is the common X-Pose. At the other hand, the non-boned formats have to be parsed recursively because their joints are linked as a strict hierarchy. So Linepicking will return a childs handle, although they WILL return the correct picking location (nothing floating in the air as with B3D). You will then need to determine the top parent of it to get the enemy handle. And of course these fomrats don't support mesh deformation (by Animate) as B3D does, so they are looking kind of unorganic all the time. Note with animated 3ds and x you need to apply everythin recursively, be it textures, pickmode, alpha, etc. See code archives for recursively parsing a hierarchy of an entity. |
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| The thing I'm liking about using max and then exporting to md2 is that I can use all character studio animation features including bones and even manipulating individual vertices, and the exported MD2 replicates the full max animation perfectly. still want to hear if there are other disadvantages to md2. . . |
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| still want to hear if there are other disadvantages to md2. . . Loads.. the vertices wobble around ( separate from the animation ) and the surface won't light correctly. You'll get ugly patches on the models which are from not being lit correctly. You can't share animations between characters, you probably end up using a lot more memory, you have no bones so you can't attach weapons, and more importantly you can't "track" the positions of body parts so that the animations can be tuned to the environment. About the only thing MD2 has going for it is that it's quite a bit faster than B3D format. You pay a high price for that though. |
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| I haven't noticed the vertex wobble, but i have noticed the awkward lighting. However, I've deemed this acceptable within my current project. I guess the other limitations may turn out to be a problem down the line. At the moment this is a simple project with no call for attaching child objects to limbs etc. Now, suppose I had to switch to b3d for any of these reasons. . . is there a better (more reliable) character animation program i could be using instead of max and pipeline? What's your preference? |
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| I no longer use Blitz3D, I'm using TrueVision3D and BlitzMax. When I was using B3D, I never did have much success with Pipeline though. I found it preferable to export to U3D format ( Ultimate Unwrap's native format ) and then convert to b3d in Ultimate Unwrap. |
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| cool thanks for the tip. I'll probably give ultimate unwrap a whirl at some point. |
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| ..as for MD2, its truth that there is no bones so you cant attach weapon, BUT in MAX you can always add pivot what will follow specific hand for weapon movements and things will work just fine I'm using it..fact that you can apply all CLOTH animation in max as well as every other modifier within max and export it clearly trough QTIP giving me reason more to take a look at MD2...I'm using only main character as a BD animated, everything else is MD2 and its looking more than good.. |
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| can always add pivot what will follow specific hand for weapon movements genius! excellent solution, will have to give it a try - thanks Naughty :O) |
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| MD2's are pretty useful if for instance you need a high volume of animating entities and don't particulary require much else. You need to attach a pivot i'm sure to get collisions going, the lighting is a wee problem. Very specific uses i'd say. |
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| quote: BUT in MAX you can always add pivot what will follow specific hand for weapon movements and things will work just fine Huh? The pivot cannot be exported by QTip right, so you won't have access to it in Blitz, is this correct? So why/how would you use it? |
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| JFK, you can export it as a separate animation sequence sinchronized with original one (following same animation path), and then parent it/hide to your character and use as a anchor for weapon..its working just fine.. |
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