Blitz3D or BlitzMax - Own 3D now
Blitz3D Forums/Blitz3D Beginners Area/Blitz3D or BlitzMax - Own 3D now
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| Should I pay for the max app? Or stick with what I've got? I just caught wind of Ploppy's DX9 lib... I like VB6 and B3D. I hate C. I didn't appreciate compilers for debugging. I can just run without an appreciable precompile. I'll never exceed 64K source (I think) I just miss joystick rumble in Dx. The beta I found doesn't seem to suit my needs very well. I'm in the middle of a major engine rewrite- maybe Xmas? Or not...? Suggestions? (other than learning C) |
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| I would stick with B3D! :) Thanks to Ploppy & his wonderful contribution (and my suggestion for total control of Shaders & full functionality of saving / loading 3D meshes), Blitz3D is coming back from the dead, and is WAY easier than C. You're NOT alone. Trust me. I HATE C... |
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| U R AWESOME I'm writing a non-violent game (3D) called 'Tourist' It's a remake of my original in VB6. So far (after I figured out how to make a type array), B3D rocks! Are you busy? (Who isn't) Would you like to try a slow-paced collaboration? We'd need to figure out who's gonna do what. I've got this sucky library of old 3d maps to the game I'm gonna have to redo anyway, and... Bla bla bla... Gotta make a loader and module swapper, already have primitive skybox and translucency fixes. Perhaps we'd have to look each other over... Using max5 right now. |
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| (and my suggestion for total control of Shaders & full functionality of saving / loading 3D meshes) omfg |
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| hey, don't get religous. BTW. Depending on how much money you can spend, I'd suggest you purchase them both. |
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| So he's a self-promoter. I don't care. |
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| LineOf7s, I can care LESS what you say. Mikorians, I'm not a self-promoter. I'm just suggesting that Blitz3D is really good. It has the potential easiness that you require, along with (pretty soon), the DX9 lib thanks to Ploppy. |
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| I just caught wind of Ploppy's DX9 lib... You would be better off using BlitzPlus with this lib. |
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| ...LineOf7s, I can care LESS what you say... |
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| What is this menopause vibe about, guys. Look, Blitz3D is nice for quick 3D projects on win plattforms, but Max gives you an elegant compiler, oo language for win, linux and mac. plus, you help to ensure, that this source of excellent tools will be contiuing doing business. |
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| Guys, don't worry- I've enjoyed b3d, and I will probably purchase max in January also. They're BOTH Basic, and that's hard to come by anymore. And Mr. Fawkes, you're right about b3d- What took me 30 years to develop in VB6 will be done converting any month now. (Just level and logic conversions left) 8) My problem was more hardware and OS than software. |
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| Yeah, I can see how that could be a problem, Mikorians. |
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| Despite claims of compatibility with 98, if you push blitz, she hiccup without XP. Took a look at Blitz Max, and - gotta say it - Not interested. Blitz 3d seems MADE for 3D, even with a lack of information for newbies who really aren't that new who can't find information or answers or source code to solve what should be a simple problem or get a simple.... pant pant... I just want to see a working example- I found a link to a list of existing b3d engines on this site, FINALLY. Why do I have to keep digging like this???? I've only wasted, like, 4 months now. |
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| If blitz3d is stuttering check your code. While blitz does support Windows 98 I am not bug testing hardware problems for anyone still on such old hardware. Win98 was still technically a DOS based operating system and not based on NT like XP was and everything windows after it. :D I keep an old custom built 98 machine around to play Red Baron II and that's it. Good luck finding a modern card that has proper driver support. But now you've made me curious I wonder how my project will run on my vintage machine? It only uses 8mb ram at low resolutions so it won't max out the 16mb 3d card. Somewhere I have a 32mb diamond viper but I've been too lazy to upgrade it. |
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| It's no problem. I have kept my other projects and moved this critical one to the new super XP machine, but I can gladly help debug should you resurrect support for it under 98. Performance? Sure it's slow. But I know 98 well. It's like an old friend. |
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| <off topic> I wouldn't worry too much about 98 / XP differences. It's still Windows. In a weeks time you wont notice the difference besides the obvious improvements. But why not go straight onto Win7? |
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| Hoooooh no. I've heard too many bad things to leap into yet another thicket. As similar as it may seem... It isn't. It never is- not since vista. I like an OS I actually have a PRAYER of fixing myself. I'd rather go BACK than forward. I use too many kewonky hardware attachments and am too set in my BASIC roots. I am making REAL FINE progress with Blitz3D AS-IS. Very happy. |
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| OK, well just want you you to know Win7 is by many considered the new XP and Blitz3D runs fine on it. Vista was skipped by many cos of it's resource hunger and oddities. Of course Win7 had some issues with drivers in the beginning but that's with all new OS's that break with the past. Win8 has also been called the new Vista as it sucks at some areas, so many avoid it like the plague(uncluding me and I need to support the stupid thing by profession) and most are sitting it out until Win9 arrives. Win7 installs much faster though and if you have enough space on your hard drive you can always grab a torrent and install it next to XP as a dual boot to test it out before finally crossing over(or better: install VMware player free and install it in a virtual machine which can be abandoned/erased more quickly). |
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| Thanks for the tips! But I think I'll be at this in XP for the NEXT 30 years. The last were spent in 98SE. This will be much more productive. I'm very stubborn because I don't learn new platforms easily. Thank you. |
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| You want to be a programmer?, Or video game designer?, If the second option Blitz3D right, even without the lib of DirectX 9. |
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| "But I think I'll be at this in XP for the NEXT 30 years." LOL! My "office"...  My main PC desktop...  Full screen Now, I don't mind Windows 7 for playing DOSBox games and for going online... My Windows 7x64 Laptop desktop I also have an XP laptop for mobility with a desktop almost identical to the above. But I doubt I'll ever retire Windows 2000, so small and light, with a dash of sweet nostalgia. I love working with it and most software from the era. I even keep a stash of identical Dells in case I ever need parts, but so far it seems this old stuff was built to last. Blitz3D appeals to me for mostly the same reasons: small, quick and unassuming. I'm not going anywhere either, and I've quit second guessing myself if Win2K/B3D was the right decision, I know it is for me. My only disappointment so far is that the tutorial pages have fallen out of my printed B3D Manual (the one you order off this site), but then I do reference it frequently (also similar content off the net). I think I'm going to have the spine removed and have it spiral binded. A decade ago I had to listen to doubters regarding VB6... http://198.65.10.229/DID/lt-solutions/index.htm ...and today I hear similar doubts with developing retro combat flight sims with "Amiga BASIC" (I'm not stopping at one) which makes me even that much more determined to help prove the little BASIC that CAN! I'm loving this little program, even the default font looks good to me! Apologies for the long post, but I think I'm becoming a B3D fanatic! |
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| I better clarify before I get into trouble, my website (and company/software) above hasn't existed in years, it's just an upload of my old site to see if FrontPage 2000 can still be used today. |
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| I think the programs run better in thier native environment. I still have a substantial DOS library that runs way too fast under 98 even on my pentium 2's. And you have to have emulators for the real nostalgia! That old equipment just takes up too much room! He he! I'm glad to hear that you're something of a die-hard at all of this too. It takes guts to pick a platform, stick with it, and try to develop something to its apex. Even whilst others might think you're obsessive or crazy. There isn't enough pride of workmanship even in software engineering any more. It's sad to see an art that takes real attitude to do well going the way of the dodo. But- In my case- Thank goodness for blitz basic 3D! The porting process from vb6 to it goes well, and the examples showing things like reflections are very encouraging. |
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| 1. There's something reassuring about relying on software that doesn't require online activation. And I'm no pirate. 2. I welcome the limited nature of B3D (at least graphically) as I have hundreds of 3D models to create, doable only due to being low poly and low rez (or no) texturing. The roots of the MicroProse Stealth series (1987 - 1991) date back to the Commodore/Amiga... Project STEALTH FIGHTER Microprose 1987 F-19 Stealth Fighter Amiga (1990) ...so it seemed only fitting to use Blitz Basic for developing a mid/late-'90s quality remake. B3D/DirectX 7 is a lot more capable than the graphics in those videos without pushing any envelopes! :) We know now that stealth fighter missions should be flown only at night (modeling late dusk to early dawn) so graphics are much more forgiving. Especially with no night vision (scenarios are Cold War 1985), only FLIR screen in MFD. +++++ I'm almost ready to start showing progress on my flight sim and it'll be nice to stop the occasional, "Hey, at least one other person is using B3D, please keep supporting it!" posts. It looks to me like B3D still has a following so I probably have nothing to worry about for the next few years, I just had no idea how time consuming it was to develop a game. I was totally clueless. I've dreamed about an F-19/F-117 remake since retiring the original with my 486DX2 back in the mid-'90s, I just never dreamed I'd have to do it myself (nor did I conceive it was even possible)! After trying DarkBASIC Pro to Unity3D/C#, had it not been for Blitz3D I don't think I would have attempted it. B3D feels so easy and stable to me, even the default IDE. Thanks to everyone for keeping it supported, I find there's still more active than dead links and I hope it continues. |
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| Yeah, it's really great! Despite any shortcomings B3D has, I find its simplicity and rapid developement time to be a big plus, and as long as I treat IT right, it seems to treat me right, which is more than I can say for other methods I've used in the past, where, one small mistake and, crash... Real steep learning curves too for one who is a little learning disabled or slow like me. The IDE is efficient if not overly optioned, but sufficient to MY needs. I've recently experimented with the md2 functions and am VERY pleased. Many commands in b3d seem to relieve whole blocks of code. I had an Amiga also- A machine way ahead of its time. Multimedia before there WAS a multimedia. My fav sim was F/A-18 Interceptor. Simple can be fun! I've built my game Tourist with this in mind, a kind of celebration of quality over content. Dumb looking things that wind up being really fun, actually. Even I enjoy playing it, so that must mean something. I had to laugh when 8 bit retro came into vogue! Ever played original 2600 Adventure or Atari 800 Pharaoh's Curse? I can't stop playing those dumb things! |
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| My fav sim was F/A-18 Interceptor. Simple can be fun! I watched a couple of YouTube videos... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHsUbGTIXyE ....and this is EXACTLY the type of flight sim I want to remake after F-19 (love the Carrier trap at the end). F/A-18 Interceptor looks to be a another good example of a late-'80s flight sim that's just waiting for a mid-'90s upgrade. |
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| I have a small collection of low poly games and simulators. I had a pub Dom diskette purchased from a vending machine in the 90's that had some free 3D basic on it, included were some entertaining samples. I love esotera! I don't write for money, but for principle! (This is how interesting programs surface) Like writers write books, so I try to write my 3D code. Hadn't planned on selling it- too much copyrighted references and multimedia (for humor) It's for personal enjoyment. I've torn apart a lot of my ancient favorite games to utilize some of thier resources. I like to dissect them and learn from them. Bits from old movies and television. Most of these games were written in assembly language. Before I could even CONSIDER releasing it, I'd have to rerecord a LOT of audio, and draw a lot of silly pictures. (Those always seem to elicit a giggle) |
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| I'm not as interested in the art of programming as many here are, nor am I even much of a gamer. For me it's all about this one game, a retro remake of MicroProse F-19/F-117, which will always be my #1 passion. Forever freeware and when I get far enough along, open source. The same will go for any other flight sim remakes I might attempt in the future. But if I actually pull off my dream game and find that I enjoyed making it, I might try commercial indie development. I'd have to come up with original ideas and once again deal with the hassles of a "business", but I'm not ruling out the possibility...years down the road. But for now I just want to learn, have fun and like you said, not have to worry about "copyrighted references". I'm almost 100% certain that I won't have issues with my F-19 freeware fan game as I stay in contact with some ex-MicroProse ('90s) and I know they're rooting for me. |
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| Yeah, I wouldn't dream of charging for this thing. It's just fun. |
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I have a track record of working on old flight sims simply for the love of it, mostly EF2000 and F-22 Total Air War by Digital Image Design (Amiga users may remember F-29 Retaliator and TFX)... From my VB6 projects... TAW Configurator TAW Configurator HUD Options TAW Texture Manager TAW Campaign Editor To other projects currently in the works... http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3841967/1 My projects (along with others working on these sims) have always been freeware and open source, and I've spent hundreds of dollars on things that benefit the community (i.e. buying the very rare Strategy Guides pictured above from Europe, having Kinkos remove the spines and then scanning to PDF, to share and to preserve [approved by the author])... My Strategy Guides w/ spines removed ++++++++++ Anything based on someone else's work (in this case abandoned flight sims) I would NEVER charge for, none of us do. And we take these sims very seriously, check out this flight sim collection from SimHQ's Pretzel...  Shelf 1 Shelf 2 Shelf 3 Shelf 4 We do what we do as a hobby that we're passionate about, for the love of these games. ++++++++++ But I'd never rule out doing commercial games with original content/ideas, especially if it means more time you can spend working on your games, possibly even full time. Plus it's kinda cool to see commercial games developed with Blitz3D, just knowing it's possible. This may never apply to us but don't rule it out as a future possibility, unless you just don't want the hassle and responsibilities (this I would understand). Apologies for the long-winded posts, this can be a touchy subject. Ah, not anything I have to worry about for a long long time. :) |
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| I keep an old custom built 98 machine around to play Red Baron II and that's it. - NostalgicAlgorithmsRed Baron is a good one, part of my collection of sims with a strong campaign...  I just purchased the first Red Baron on sale at GOG (Good Old Games) because supposedly it models infantry (removed with RB3D). |
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| Flight simulators are very hardcore stuff. I still remember MS-FS2. I was surprised at how you could go to other cities in the world. The controls on the sims are usually very detailed and sharp. If I'm not mistaken, I've seen other posts from you showing the flight controls in your games. I'll bet you make pilots real happy! I agree with your statements with regards to freeware. I believed in the movement when it first emerged. The hardware was so expensive back then that it made sense. As a very special KIND of artist (spiritual), I wouldn't sell someone else's work. Sadly, I've never had any corporate ties or support for my work, BUT, then, as you say, I haven't had any constraints either. But as all indies like me, it is always the HARD way with the slow, steep curve to learn (couldn't afford any classes- didn't want them to taint my perspective, either), but I now understand the nitty gritty behind the scenes of this fine IDE, and can appreciate the careful thought that went into its forming. Just as I have put (possibly way too much) thought into my own work. Sadly, my greatest work I can never publish. |
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You are correct, flight simmers love their sticks... :) ...I even owned the real deal once, a Thrustmaster Cougar! ...but now I'm moving away from that complexity. I'm 46 and in tri-focals and my vision isn't as sharp as it used to be. A high-res fully functional clickable virtual cockpit doesn't appeal to me anymore, I want to go back to a simpler 2D pit with snap views, and one that I can fly with a keyboard/mouse, especially when I'm away on a laptop. F-29 Retaliator is an old Amiga flight sim (I have the PC version) with a basic but reasonably realistic flight model (not so UFO arcade), and to me feels pretty good using a mouse for control. The author Martin Kenwright (founder of DID) is a pilot and I think it shows. And this is what I'm aiming for, although I still want to be able to use my lesser Logitech Wingman sticks. The xfighter Blitz3D demo is what won me over, no other game maker had such a complete and easy to understand "flight sim" sample. And B3D was the last one I tried, I was lucky to even find out about it, it's usually not listed as a suggested starting point. Suddenly I started believing, "I CAN DO THIS!" B3D made the whole idea seem possible. |
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| One more thing, why I'm stuck in the year 2000... History & Evolution Of Microsoft Office Software The MS Office GUIs after Office 2000 start getting harder on my eyes, and the newer ribbon interface loses me. MS will eventually destroy Visual Studio with stupidity... Overcoming the New Visual Studio UI GUI is unusable ...like they're trying to do with Office and Windows. But we [Blitz using] dinosaurs won't care, and we won't be getting fingerprint smudges all over our screens. :) |
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| It's good to have the right UI for the job, and Microsoft sure isn't the place to find it. I've been working AROUND them for years. I did actually mean that the control -displays- on the screen always look SO sharp. Have you used the new teensy hack for the old MS flight sticks yet? I'm now able to deploy my old MS force feedback pro in XP. If you need to, you should look it up- they now sell PRE-ASSEMBLED boards with software preloaded- plug and play- no driver! |
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| Did I just see Photoshop 5 le in post 21? Ha ha ha ha ha! I've been using that for ages. ...and a Crt, and Windows xp, and Blitz3d. I was hoping to see a 90s phone in one of those pictures too, but anyway, that's what I use. Twelve finger sized buttons and a volume switch, and the receiver goes all the way from your ear to your mouth. Old stuff's the best. |
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| Yeah, those fold-in-half deck-of-cards sized cells from the 90's were much easier to hold on to (not that I owned one at the time). Ever tried to use one of those so-called 'bar' phones, as in candy bar? They're teeny. Ugh. Drop in toilet (whoops!) |
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