Easiest Linux dist. to get working
Archives Forums/Linux Discussion/Easiest Linux dist. to get working
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| Thinking about partitioning a hard drive and installing Linux as a dual boot with Windows 7. I'm only interested in doing this so that I can compile my BlitzMax project and try it on Linux. Any suggestions? What's the most popular/easy to install Linux distribution these days? Are there any tutorials I need to read for compiling under Linux, or is it just a simple matter of installing Linux, installing BM and then compiling and away I go? or is it more involved like it is for Mac (needs XCode etc. before compiling) |
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| Hi Arabia. First things first. How you do a dual boot depends on whether or not you have a proprietary system such as Dell,Acer, etc or if you have a genuine Window 7 retail disk with OEM hardware driver install disks. This has more to do with system recovery if things go wrong. Secondly you must have a reasonable understanding of your computers hardware. If your computer is proprietary, then make sure that you have created some proper system recovery disks. Many such systems in this day and age have a hidden recovery partition and some software that you can use to create a set of recovery DVD's should the hard drive or the system become un-bootable. If your system was custom built and you have all the disks, then all you have to worry about is your personal data. If you have never done a dual boot before, I would suggest that you use a virtual machine such as VMWare to practice setting up a dual boot system first before attempting to do the same thing with real hardware as the last thing you want to do is wipe out any important partitions. What's the most popular/easy to install Linux distribution these days? You have here a choice here. BRL recommend Ubuntu, but currently the most downloaded according to Distro Watch is Linux Mint. Ubuntu does have the advantage of having a install method that treats it like a windows program, but it may not work on all systems. There are also other methods that can be used that don't have you messing around with your partitions such as installation to a USB memory stick (as long as you can boot from usb). There is one thing to note about any Linux distribution and that is not all hardware is guaranteed to work out of the box (and some may never work at all until some writes a driver for it). Other things to be aware of is whether the system uses EFI instead of BIOS. Are there any tutorials I need to read for compiling under Linux, The are hundreds of tutorials for virtually every language, but you will mostly find Blitz Max related material on the BRL web site. or is it just a simple matter of installing Linux, installing BM and then compiling and away I go? or is it more involved like it is for Mac (needs XCode etc. before compiling) It's a lot more involved than setting up on OS X as you have to set your system up correctly, install the c++ compiler and the development libraries. It also get a lot more complicated if you are using a 64bit distribution. I have written a quick install script to automate the installation of the necessary dependencies for those distributions that are based off of Ubuntu here. And you will find that even Blitz Max it self will need to be patched because it hasn't been updated in a while. There is another set of scripts that you will either have to download the zip file or copy from a web browser that should handle a few other distributions from here. These scripts can also install Blitz Max and set it up so it can be run just like another application. |
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| Holy crap! Thanks for all the info. I didn't realize how involved it could be. I'll need to double check my BIOS, my machine is only a couple of years old so I'm sure booting to USB is possible and that would be a lot easier for my purposes at the moment. I've also got a 2nd hard drive that I'm not currently using, so I could also just switch that to the Master drive and install on that - it would save worrying about doing any damage to my Windows partition. I downloaded Ubuntu last night (I saw someone ask a question about it in here so it was the first name I saw and thought that will do to start with), so I may give that a go on the weekend. I'm not running a "brand" name PC like Dell or Acer - I know they can be a pain for drivers. They can be hard to find the right drivers for Windows sometimes let alone Linux. So the PC is pretty much fairly well OEM parts (Asus, NVidia etc.) with no funny additional cards that I'll need to track drivers down for - I'm pretty sure the MB & Vid manufacturers will have Linux drivers. Thanks for all the info. I'll check the BIOS and as long as booting to USB is possible, I'll grab another USB stick tonight and give it a shot. I didn't look at system requirements for Ubuntu - guessing a 16gb stick will be heaps as I believe Linux is not nearly as big as Windows. |
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| If your machine uses a regular BIOS (not the EFI which uses a partition of the system hard drive for firmware drivers that would normally be part of the bios) for booting and isn't a proprietary machine, meaning that you have to use either the Windows Retail or System builders OEM disk to restore the OS along with vendor supplied hardware disks. Then installation is usually very simple as the Ubuntu installer will do the work for you (but it's not recommended there's a link to a video below on the best way), just make sure that you back up any important data. And know how to restore the MBR when you want to remove Linux. so I could also just switch that to the Master drive and install on that - it would save worrying about doing any damage to my Windows partition. To do that you still have to be familiar with how drives are represented in Linux and know where to install the GRUB boot-loader.Here's a video that shows how to do a quick dual boot install for Ubuntu 12.10 (it's the same thing for 12.04,13.04) with Windows 7 (you can do the same thing with Vista). So the PC is pretty much fairly well OEM parts (Asus, NVidia etc.) with no funny additional cards that I'll need to track drivers down for - I'm pretty sure the MB & Vid manufacturers will have Linux drivers. If they are the standard off the self components and don't rely on the on the Windows vendor software (some thing like Winbond). Then every thing should work, but it should be noted that some old hardware many not be supported (mostly graphic cards).I should have pointed out that using a USB memory stick as a hard drive will shorten it's life. |
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| Thanks for your help. I think USB stick will the way to go initially, I'm not looking to convert from Windows to Linux at this stage, was just curious about how my game would look & act under Linux. |
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| Hi Arabia, (these are some things I learned about Ubuntu): { PAE = Physical Address Extension, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension } If your PC (or laptop) is so old enough that it does not support PAE, then you'll have to download a NON-PAE version of Ubuntu, such as the following: Ubuntu 12.04 (NON-PAE) http://people.canonical.com/~diwic/12.04-nonpae/ Xubuntu 12.04.2 LTS (Precise Pangolin) http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/12.04/release/ Yet don't worry, after installation your Ubuntu (ver 12) can self-update to a more updated version 13, through automatic updates. ---------------------------------------------------------------- If your laptop is modern is enough that it does support PAE, then please do download the most up to date version of Ubuntue : Ubuntue 13.04 http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop ------------------------------------------------------------------ During the installation process, you can use Gparted to carefully create and/or resize partitions. Please study Gparted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkXATVq75IQ http://askubuntu.com/questions/51272/how-do-i-repartition-with-gparted It would be great to create a SWAP partition (equal to the size of your RAM). The purpose of a linux-swap partition is to allow Ubuntu to hibernate. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ( If, for some reason you did not create a swap partition, then it may be possible to later hibernate to a swap file instead, but it's more complicated that way. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1042946 ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is some software that allows Windows to read Linux partitions. This way you can have fun in Windows and read what Linux did: Ext2Read and ext2fsd http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-read-ext3ext4-linux-partition-from-windows-7.html http://sourceforge.net/projects/ext2read/ Ext2FSD http://www.ext2fsd.com/ Linux (Ubuntu) can easily read and write to Windows partitions, so, if you have a dual boot system (of Windows + Linux), you can easily use Ubuntu to read your Windows drives. I read that Ubuntu is case sensitive, while Windows is not. Comparing file name and path limits: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1178606.html Some interesting limits: For Ubuntu, each filename length has a limit of 255 characters, the ext3 filesystem has a directory depth limit of 32000 levels, the ext4 filesystem has a directory depth limit of 64000. http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1178606.html For Windows, each file+path has a limit of about 255 characters http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa365247%28v=vs.85%29.aspx http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/file-names-and-file-name-extensions-frequently-asked-questions Try doing the following while in Ubuntu: (a) Create 2 directories in your Windows partition, and name them the same, so that they differ only in case. Such as : Dir1, and DIR1  (b) Create a directory depth deeper than 300 on your Windows partition. (c) Create 2 files in your Windows partition, and name them the same, so that they differ only in case. Later, when you're back in Windows, try to access both "Dir1", and "DIR1". In Windows, see how deep you can traverse through a directory that is deeper than 255. You'll find that Windows cannot delete directory paths that are deeper than 255. You're stuck with it forever.  -------------------------------------------------------------------------- After your Ubuntu installation is successful, remember to get Ubuntu Restricted Extras, you'll need it. http://askubuntu.com/questions/199594/ubuntu-restricted-extras-after-install-ubuntu-12-04 http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/ubuntu-restricted-extras-install-ubuntu-linux/ https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/ubuntu-restricted-extras/ Terminal command { Ctrl-Alt-T } sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get all the WINE you can: http://www.winehq.org/download/ubuntu http://www.howtogeek.com/105271/how-to-run-windows-software-on-ubuntu-with-wine/ http://askubuntu.com/questions/15518/how-do-i-install-wine Wine allows you to run Windows programs within Ubuntu. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you want, I think you can also boot your Linux (Ubuntu) from your SD slot, and from your FireWire connector too, with the aid of PLOP Boot Manager. This way, your USB ports are free for other purposes. You would temporarily boot up with a PLOP LiveCD, or PLOP USB, then it transfers control to where your Linux (or Windows) is installed. http://www.plop.at/en/home.html http://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/plpbt.bin.html But, in order for that to work, you would have had to originally installed Ubuntu to that odd device ( SD, Firewire ). Apparently you cannot boot an OS from a USB hub, so that's a limitation. I hope you enjoyed this. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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| Wow - brain overload :) Thanks for all the info. |
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| I'm only interested in doing this so that I can compile my BlitzMax project and try it on Linux. Maybe you should start with running Ubuntu in a virtual machine. That way you can run Linux in a "safe" - and compatible(!) - environment and learn your way around the OS without killing your Windows installation by accident. VirtualBox is free and sufficient for this purpose: https://www.virtualbox.org/ Since you want to use BlitzMax on Linux, you can also make your life a whole lot easier by installing a 32-Bit version of Ubuntu. It can be rather messy to get 32-Bit software like BlitzMax running properly on a 64-Bit Linux. There are several threads here that explain perfectly fine what you need to do, but you can significantly improve the odds in your favor by simply sticking with a 32-Bit Linux-distribution. My desktop/notebook Linux distribution of choice is Xubuntu 12.04.2 LTS 64-Bit, by the way. It has Ubuntu at its core, but runs the lightweight Xfce desktop instead of the more demanding Unity desktop. But at the end of the day, it is merely a personal preference which desktop you choose. It is true, according to Distrowatch, Linux Mint has more downloads than Ubuntu nowadays. But the worth of their statistic is very questionable - no end users will ever visit Distrowatch, their target audience are the hardcore Linux geeks. And let's be frank here - the hard core geeks are no longer the majority of Linux users. I trust Valve's market research more than I trust Distrowatch; they had very valid commercial reasons for officially supporting Ubuntu - and not Linux Mint - when they ported Steam to Linux. If there are end users on Linux, the vast majority of them runs Ubuntu. Especially when you start with Linux, it makes your life easier to use what most others use. My last recommendation is to stick with a LTS (Long Term Support) edition instead of the bleeding edge interim releases. Ubuntu 12.04 LTS comes with five years of support, Ubuntu 13.04 only comes with nine months of support. The next LTS version will be 14.04 which is due for release in April next year, and you will be able to upgrade from 12.04 to 14.04. When you choose to install 13.04 now, you will have to upgrade to the forthcoming 13.10 release in October and only then you can upgrade to 14.04 when it will be released next April -- that is one of the prices that you have to pay when you use the bleeding edge interim releases. You get the latest stuff, but you will also have to upgrade your OS very frequently. If you want a stable environment, LTS editions are your friend. |
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| Maybe you should start with running Ubuntu in a virtual machine Great idea. Try these others as well. QEMU { QEMU is a machine emulator and virtualizer. } http://wiki.qemu.org/Main_Page VMWare Player { is Free. } https://my.vmware.com/web/vmware/free#desktop_end_user_computing/vmware_player/5_0 VirtualBox https://www.virtualbox.org/ Bochs http://bochs.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html http://sourceforge.net/projects/bochs/ DOSBox for Ubuntu { emulates DOS } https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DOSBox DOSMu for Linux { emulates DOS } http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dosemu |
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| Mint is an option. The Mint Ubuntu edition is (you guessed it) Ubuntu under the hood, so I would be very surprised if Blitz has a problem with it. Many prefer it to Ubuntu. |
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| Interesting option. I've tried regular Ubuntu, but have never tried Mint. http://www.diffen.com/difference/Linux_Mint_vs_Ubuntu http://lifehacker.com/5993297/ubuntu-vs-mint-which-linux-distro-is-better-for-beginners Download Linux Mint 15 Olivia http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php |
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| I've had a wonderful time this last couple of months after moving to LMDE (Linux Mint Debian Edition). It's just as easy to set up as regular Mint and looks pretty much the same for basic usage, but you have the legendary stability of the Debian base taking care of you instead of Ubuntu. Using dawlane's scripts, BlitzMax works flawlessly, including the famously uncooperative sound (never saw an issue). |
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| I should warn you Yasha the LMDE has been known to break on the odd occasion after an update, but once the problem is reported, it's usually fixed quickly. I've tried regular Ubuntu, but have never tried Mint. Mint Mate is my preferred choice, but I do like openSUSE just as much, even after Microsoft/Novell affair.You will never find which is the most used desktop Linux distribution as there has never been a real survey and distro-watch only records the number of hits a web page gets, not the actual distribution usage. This may give you an insight ( http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/best-linux-distro-five-we-recommend-1090058 ) for some of the Linux distributions out there, but don't take this as a definitive popularity list as many of these I would rate differently. It's just a question of person taste. Using dawlane's scripts, BlitzMax works flawlessly, including the famously uncooperative sound (never saw an issue). Which scripts. I've got a few on here. I have been thinking of breaking my multi-install bmax-install script into separate modules to make it easier to maintain, the down side is then there will be a hell of a lot of scripts. |
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| Which scripts. I've got a few on here. I was referring to the ones linked in post #2 of this thread (actually, I personally only used the patcher_148). Thanks, by the way! |
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| I should warn you Yasha the LMDE has been known to break on the odd occasion after an update, but once the problem is reported, it's usually fixed quickly. For the record, more or less right after this discussion I gave up on LMDE as it was failing in its primary (from my perspective) goal of being an OS that I do not want or have to think about and just does its thing in the background. It works beautifully out of the box, but the team's inability to keep up with security updates made it a sense of constant worry that really detracted from the desired non-experience. Taking a leap of faith I switched to stock Debian and, surprisingly (to a newbie) - it's completely painless! This isn't the 90s any more, and Debian Stable works pretty much out of the box. Woo. The only part where it was more involved than Ubuntu or LMDE or any other "easier" distro was that since Debian only ships Free Software, many wireless cards won't work out of the box and for your first update (right after enabling the nonfree repos - something that takes seconds and an expert can probably walk you through by SMS) you'll need to stand up and plug in a cable to fetch the nonfree firmware. Oh the horror. Let a novice user pronounce: Debian itself is suitable for the average consumer. (Have not done any Maxing yet but I assume it's pretty much the same as LMDE.) |
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| Have not done any Maxing yet but I assume it's pretty much the same as LMDE. It is for the 32bit version. But needs a bit of work to install on the 64bit version (a little more than Ubuntu/Mint) as you have to enable multi-arch support, libgl.so.1 isn't in the mesa directory as the direcotry doesn't exist and the full ia32 package is named differently.As to the security updates you should read this as it's not just LMDE (which is base of the Debian testing branch). Section 2:Q1 http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=197&t=91405 |
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